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Face-Off

Face-Off

by Airwave Media

Latest episode
Ukraine’s Lost Deterrent

About this podcast

The nuclear age began in secrecy and scientific ambition. The story is familiar, but its implications have never left us. A bomb created in a moment of wartime urgency became the foundation of a global order defined by terror and deterrence. But what happens when that global order breaks down?

Face-Off: Nuclear Anarchy is an 8-part series tracing the arc of nuclear danger from the Manhattan Project to the Cuban Missile Crisis to the abandonment of the New START treaty and the shattering of the nonproliferation order today. We take you behind the scenes of key moments and key places of the nuclear story to shed light upon the present.

In each episode, Pulitzer-winning journalist Jane Perlez interviews leading participants in the nuclear conversation: David Sanger, Tong Zhao, Rose Gotemoeller, Alex Wellerstein and more. Plus, Matthew Bunn, of Harvard's Managing the Atom project, joins for a wrap-up segment to put everything in context.

We are living in a more crowded and unstable nuclear world—where proliferation spreads not through ideology or conquest, but through fear, hedging, and the collapse of confidence. Face-Off asks who will hold the line, and for how long?

Episodes out every Tuesday in October & November 2026.

This project is made possible by the Belfer Center at the Harvard Kennedy School and the Managing the Atom Project. Our special guest is Professor Matthew Bunn, Faculty Chair of the Managing the Atom Project (@matthew-bunn.bsky.social).

Face-Off is produced and reported by Jane Perlez. Our production team is Nina Porzucki, Louise Morris, and Frank Zhou. Sound design and mixing by John Myers and Rowhome Productions.

Episodes

  • Ukraine’s Lost Deterrent · 40 min · Season 4 Episode 5It is one of the great broken promises of the post-Cold War era. When the Soviet Union collapsed, Ukraine found itself in possession of the world’s third-largest nuclear arsenal…
  • The Age of Arms Control · 39 min · Season 4 Episode 4There was a time when the nuclear powers did more than posture. During the era of arms control, the White House, Kremlin, and State Department built frameworks to slow the arms…
  • Thirteen Days on the Brink · 41 min · Season 4 Episode 3Jane Perlez reports on the thirteen most dangerous days in human history, when the world came closer to nuclear annihilation than ever before or since: the Cuban Missile Crisis…
  • The Race to Build the Bomb · 52 min · Season 4 Episode 2The nuclear age began in fear, secrecy, and scientific ambition. The bomb created in a moment of wartime urgency became the foundation of a new global order defined by terror and…
  • The New Nuclear Age · 55 min · Season 4 Episode 1For the first time in half a century, the world is drifting into a nuclear era with fewer constraints and more danger. The old arms control architecture is gone. The United…
  • Introducing Face-Off: Nuclear Anarchy? · 5 min · Season 4The nuclear age began in secrecy and scientific ambition. The story is familiar, but its implications have never left us. Face-Off: Nuclear Anarchy is an 8-part series tracing…
  • Trump’s War, Xi’s Opportunity: Ambassador Nicholas Burns on Iran’s Hot War · 38 min · Season 3 Episode 13As this episode is published - on April 21, 2026 - it’s far from clear which direction the war between the US and Iran is headed. Even so, America’s reputation around the world…
  • Climbing the Great Firewall: Freedom, Censorship, and China’s Internet · 45 min · Season 3 Episode 12In this episode, we take you inside the Chinese internet. China is currently home to the world's most sophisticated, far-reaching internet censorship regime. Chinese censors are…
  • How Far Will China Go for Iran? · 32 min · Season 3 Episode 11This week: China and Iran. The two countries have close ties and, yet, while China initially condemned the US-Israeli war on Iran, the Chinese government has stayed mostly quiet…
  • Stolen in China, Raised in Texas: Twins Caught Between Two Superpowers · 49 min · Season 3 Episode 10In this episode, Journalist Barbara Demick talks with Jane about her latest book Daughters of the Bamboo Grove. It’s the story of Chinese twins separated as toddlers. One twin…
  • The Black Box: Inside China’s Military Mind · 25 min · Season 3 Episode 9We’re back! We’ll be publishing five brand new episodes of Face-Off bi-weekly starting today. In this episode, we welcome back Zhou Bo, a retired colonel in the People’s…
  • The Chip Whisperer · 53 min · Season 3 Episode 8Jensen Huang built the company that powers the AI revolution—and he's playing both Washington and Beijing. The Taiwan-born Nvidia CEO holds the keys to artificial intelligence…
  • The Charm Offensive That Isn't · 50 min · Season 3 Episode 7As Trump trashes American soft power, can China fill the void? A top Chinese academic explains why Beijing struggles to win hearts and minds and why being feared isn't the same…
  • Clash on the High Seas · 44 min · Season 3 Episode 6High-seas drama as Chinese warships hunt Filipino fishing boats in their own waters. Beijing is testing America's oldest Pacific ally with dangerous games of maritime chicken…
  • The Rugby Gambit · 33 min · Season 3 Episode 5The strangest geopolitical deal you've never heard of: Australia trades rugby league spots for an agreement not to make an agreement with China. Papua New Guinea's players get to…
  • Rise of the Robots · 35 min · Season 3 Episode 4"If I was the U.S., I would be terrified." We report from a 1,500+ robot convention in Beijing, and an American robotics expert who's toured China's factories reveals how China…
  • The Xi Factor · 54 min · Season 3 Episode 3Jake Sullivan has sat across from Xi Jinping more times than almost any American official—from Xi's rise in 2013 to their last face-off in Beijing. What's it like negotiating…
  • China's Arms Race · 52 min · Season 3 Episode 2China is outbuilding America's navy and beating us in hypersonic missiles. Xi has purged corrupt generals to create a military machine loyal only to him. Can China's forces…
  • Generation Burnout · 59 min · Season 3 Episode 1China's youth were supposed to lead the nation to glory. Instead, they're lying flat, embracing "garbage time," and quietly rebelling against a system that promised everything…
  • Season 3 Trailer · 3 min · Season 3 Episode 1In our third season of Face-Off: The US vs China, we’ll explore some of the biggest issues dividing these global powers today: Trump and Xi Jinping, AI, China’s growing military…
  • THE GREATER WAGER EPISODE 5: The Break-Up · 18 min · Season 2 Episode 16THE GREAT WAGER Episode 5. The break-up: Richard Nixon’s great wager reverberates from the '70s to today While we’re preparing season 3 of Face Off, we’re excited to present an…
  • THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 4: Shared Secrets · 17 min · Season 2 Episode 15THE GREAT WAGER Episode 4. Shared secrets: How The U.S. and China worked together to spy on the Soviet Union While we’re preparing season 3 of Face Off, we’re excited to present…
  • THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 3: When Nixon Met Mao · 17 min · Season 2 Episode 14THE GREAT WAGER Episode 3. Grip and grin: When Nixon met Mao While we’re preparing season 3 of Face Off, we’re excited to present an encore presentation of The Great Wager, a…
  • THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 2: Plots & Private Planes · 17 min · Season 2 Episode 13THE GREAT WAGER Episode 2: Plots and private planes: How Henry Kissinger pulled off a secret trip to China While we’re preparing season 3 of Face Off, we’re excited to present…
  • THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 1: Richard Nixon's "Crazy" Idea · 16 min · Season 2 Episode 12THE GREAT WAGER EPISODE 1: Richard Nixon's 'crazy' idea: Make befriending the Chinese Communist Party his legacy With money, power and political standing at stake, America’s…
  • Criss-Crossing China · 52 min · Season 2 Episode 11In this bonus episode of Face-Off Jane speaks with former ambassador to China, Nicholas Burns. They discuss Ambassador Burns’ encounters with the Chinese leader Xi Jinping, his…
  • From Mao to Xi Jinping: A Conversation with Orville Schell · 59 min · Season 2 Episode 10In a special bonus episode recorded live at the Asia Society, host Jane Perlez speaks with journalist and scholar Orville Schell about his 50 years covering Chinese leaders and…
  • Soulmates: Xi and Putin · 40 min · Season 2 Episode 9China and Russia have rarely been friendly - until now. Xi and Putin have been open about their bromance, exchanging gifts, sharing lavish dinners, even celebrating a birthday…
  • AI Superpower: US or China? · 45 min · Season 2 Episode 8China’s leader, Xi Jinping, has given China five years to dominate Artificial Intelligence. He believes China must accomplish this goal in order to become the world’s tech giant…
  • Electric Vehicles · 45 min · Season 2 Episode 7Back in 2015 the Chinese government declared that they would become the world leader in EVs by 2025. Major car companies scoffed. Who wants an EV? Today, China automakers have…
  • Feminist Rebels · 39 min · Season 2 Episode 6China’s leader, Mao Zedong famously said that “Women hold up half the sky.” But these days it doesn’t feel that way in China. Unfair marriage rules, difficulties getting a…
  • Hollywood and China · 49 min · Season 2 Episode 5Motion pictures first came to China in 1896. China was one of the first countries to screen the Lumiere brother’s “western shadowplays” as they were called. By the 1930’s…
  • TikTok: What Now? · 55 min · Season 2 Episode 4More than 170 million Americans are entertained, informed and earn big bucks from the Chinese-owned app, TikTok. Now their relationship with TikTok is in mortal danger, to say…
  • Journalists in China · 39 min · Season 2 Episode 3There are few American journalists reporting from inside China today. But that has not always been the case. In fact, American journalists in China freely reported on one of the…
  • Two Strongmen · 48 min · Season 2 Episode 2Trump has praised Xi Jinping in the past. He’s also slapped tariffs on China. What does the return of Trump mean for China? Economic rivalry for sure. Possible war over Taiwan? A…
  • Season 2 Trailer · 4 min · Season 2 Episode 1Season 2 of Face-Off: US vs China begins Tuesday, February 11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
  • The New Cold Wars: A Conversation with David Sanger · 53 min · Season 1 Episode 9In this bonus episode, Jane Perlez sits down with New York Times national security and White House correspondent David Sanger. In this candid conversation, they talk about his…
  • Taiwan · 35 min · Season 1 Episode 8Will the United States and China go to war over an island of 24 million people nearly 6,500 miles from California? Why is this a possibility? What is the history and significance…
  • China’s Fortunes · 38 min · Season 1 Episode 7How the Chinese economic downturn is affecting all kinds of people. How real estate meltdown, with enough unfinished empty apartments to fill the population of Germany, is at the…
  • Espionage · 35 min · Season 1 Episode 6Two young CIA agents were flown to northern China in 1952, part of a bizarre Cold War operation to overthrow Mao Zedong. The plane crashed. The two Americans were arrested, and…
  • The Relationship · 33 min · Season 1 Episode 5Xi Jinping and Joe Biden met on a basketball court in China in 2011 when they were vice presidents. They later toasted each other in Washington. They’ve spent many hours…
  • Cultural Threads · 20 min · Season 1 Episode 4From his studio in Boston, Yo-Yo Ma tells us how music eases tensions between American and Chinese people, even as Washington and Beijing are at each other’s throats. Guests: Yo…
  • Doomsday · 28 min · Season 1 Episode 3China is rapidly expanding its nuclear arsenal even as arms control treaties are shredded. Can China and the U.S. come to the table and agree to nuclear arms control accords?…
  • Apple in China · 32 min · Season 1 Episode 2Apple, one of the world’s most valuable companies, depends on China, America’s biggest adversary, to manufacture its iPhones. Apple employs millions of contract workers in China…
  • Spies in the Sky · 33 min · Season 1 Episode 1An American surveillance plane and a Chinese fighter jet collide near the Chinese coast in 2001. Smart diplomacy by a former American Navy Admiral results in the release of two…
  • Introducing: Face Off · 4 min · Season 1Our trailer features jaw-dropping audio from the cockpit of an American spy plane flying over the South China Sea. It’s early 2001. A Chinese fighter jet is getting perilously…

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